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Subject: Flight Training Financing
 
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boatpixUser is Offline
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02/17/2012 3:03 PM  
We have flight training financing if you already have your PPL(H).   Please fill out an application at:  http://helicopteracademy.com/financialAid/financialAid.htm as we have been getting a lot of approvals.

I noticed on this fine forum that someone suggested I was a no-show at the Heli-Expo? I read this as I was sitting at my booth at the Heli-Expo so this came to me as a surprise then as I also sponsored the JOB FAIR and the HELI-SUCCESS lite program.   I wanted to express some comments about the state of jobs and the Job Fair as I  helped pay for it:   There seem to be plenty of jobs for those that meet the qualifications of those doing the hiring but those doing the hiring might have a different opinion than if you ask the unqualified applicant.    I was also at a committee meeting where a young lady joined the committee with the quest of helping create jobs and financing.  I wasn't sure how the committee was going to do that but if you need jobs or financing you can contact me.  Both jobs and financing are covered on my website and always have been.


   You can go directly to Financial Aid Application at: https://www.formstack.com/forms/?1109387-zvpb1Af6Fp
clipperdudeUser is Offline

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02/17/2012 10:12 PM  
Posted By boatpix on 02/17/2012 3:03 PM
...There seem to be plenty of jobs for those that meet the qualifications of those doing the hiring but those doing the hiring might have a different opinion than if you ask the unqualified applicant..


There are always plenty of jobs for those who's logbooks are thick. What we need is a job fair for low-time, entry-level pilots, instead of always catering to the 1000+ hr CFIIs, for whom jobs are plentiful!
jlewisUser is Offline
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02/18/2012 4:37 PM  
Clipperdude nailed it! Every Expo I've seen is geared toward the high time fellas, not the newbies. You gotta have a job to have the hours, without the hours there is no job. How do we get qualified if we can't get a job that pays the bills, keeps us busy and builds the hours!?
skipperUser is Offline
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02/19/2012 2:13 AM  
It looks like there are plenty of openings for mid to high time pilots. Meaning 2,000 and up. If you don't have your 2,000, your job opportunities are far less plentiful.
kodozUser is Offline
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02/19/2012 1:33 PM  
From employers' perspective, there's no need to hold job fairs for low-time pilots because there's a surplus of them. Moreover, almost any school can train more CFIs than they ever need. All part of what doesn't make it in the flight school sales pitch.
fmtndtUser is Offline
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02/19/2012 5:50 PM  
In reality, a flight school is in business as a flight school. Why should they give you a job? How many of you went to college and expect the college to find you a job....? Think if it this way---if you went to law school, would you expect that law school to hire you as an attorney...? If you were that naive that you got into this business without researching it properly, then your bad...

Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. Teach a helicopter pilot to fish-and he will sit on a boat and drink beer all day....
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02/19/2012 10:40 PM  
Posted By fmtndt on 02/19/2012 5:50 PM
In reality, a flight school is in business as a flight school. Why should they give you a job? How many of you went to college and expect the college to find you a job....? Think if it this way---if you went to law school, would you expect that law school to hire you as an attorney...? If you were that naive that you got into this business without researching it properly, then your bad...


We're not asking flight schools to give us a job! We just think that it would be nice (at least once) that one of these annual job fairs was for pilots who actually need one!
jlewisUser is Offline
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02/20/2012 2:31 PM  
I'm not going to disagree with anyones point of view, they are all correct. People are taking it wrong, exactly what clipperdude said, "It would be nice..." Not saying it's going to happen but its still something that would have a huge turnout. There is in fact a surplus of low-time pilots and a not so many jobs. But they are out there, along with SIC jobs. It's just the fact that they are unknown to the low-time guys, thats the issue at hand. So kodoz, fmtndt what do you suggest for the low-time guys? What other routes would you suggest we take to find a low time job? The thing that gets under my skin the most is how productive these seminars and expos are for those high timers and knowing thats there is absolutely nothing I can do for my career except wait! It sucks, but if its what I gotta do its what Im gunna do!
fmtndtUser is Offline
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02/20/2012 3:58 PM  
Posted By jlewis on 02/20/2012 2:31 PM
The thing that gets under my skin the most is how productive these seminars and expos are for those high timers and knowing thats there is absolutely nothing I can do for my career except wait!


I may be generalising here, so forgive me if you are not included in this bunch.... The thing that gets a lot of us who used to be regular posters here, (myself, ikespike, and others whose names elude me right now), is the fact that we told you so. Many times over and over we warned everyone about Silver State and yet you all chose to spend your money and then come whining to us. We have continued to say for the last few years that jobs will be tough on the lower end, and yet people still choose to go to flight school. That is fine, follow your dreams---we did, but accept the fact that there are not jobs waiting for you.
Posted By jlewis on 02/20/2012 2:31 PM
So kodoz, fmtndt what do you suggest for the low-time guys? What other routes would you suggest we take to find a low time job?


Quite simple really---network, network, network. In the course of my work, I ferry an aircraft round the country a few times each year. I normally take my girlfriend for the ride--- I was parked at an FBO in October, and an R-22 instructor came over and talked to me, asked if he could fly along---he did, and got about 10 hours of longranger time for free. All it took was him being friendly, and talking.

Most pilots outside of flight instruction will sit and talk to you, (try not to bombard them right when they land though), and you will make contacts quite easily. Remember, this is a small world---no matter where you go, who you talk to, or who you see----treat it as though you are interviewing for a job. The pilot who ride with me has gotten 3 job offers in the last month, and he has only just hit the 1,000 hour mark. There are "non-flying" jobs out there related to helicopters that would get you a foot in the door---fire season is coming up, I know many companies looking to hire fuel truck drivers...

Back to the career seminars----they cost money. Why would a flight school spend money to attend a seminar when they have lots of pilots to choose from...? Like you said---it is a waiting game, waiting for the economy to pick up.

I will re-post this which I found on another site:

1.Be humble everywhere you go....no one likes a bragger. Let your skill and actions speak for you, not so much your mouth.

2. Always learn from the mistakes of others and always be willing to admit when you make a mistake and learn from it. Nobody likes a hardhead know-it-all.

3. Never stop going to school or seeking continuing education. Keep striving for every rating...every seminar....more college.....recurrent training. It is all about development in both your career and personal life. Some guys have 30 years of experience, but have lived the same year 30 times. Keep striving for more.

4. Project a positive attitude wherever you go. I should make this #1 on this list. Ask any employer...attitude is at the top of everyone's list. I would rather work with a person that has a positive attitude and still has a few things to learn than a person that really knows everything but their attitude stinks. Bad attitudes are infectious and can tear up an operation. This single attribute WILL get you further along in this business that any other.

5. Work hard and always give a little more than expected.

6. Be honest with yourself and everyone around you. If you screw up and think you had a hot start...admit it. Do not lie about anything....if you do it will come around and bite your butt and word will be out that you are a liar. Having a reputation for being an honest guy that has made a mistake will not keep you from getting a job. Having a reputation of being a LIAR will keep you from getting a job.

7. Network , network , network.

8. DO NOT BURN BRIDGES....unless it is unavoidable. This is a very small industry and everyone talks....ESPECIALLY the Directors of Operations. They have an unwritten code regarding these things. A good Chief Pilot once said to me, the guy whose toes you are stepping on today, may be the guy whose butt you are kissing tomorrow. Sad but so true!

9. Always, always remember...YOUR career is built upon YOUR reputation. In most cases, how you are to be perceived in this business rests on your shoulders. The piloting aspect is not what causes most problems for pilots. That part is easy for most of us. The problems usually come when the pilot has to speak or interact with coworkers or supervisors. All I can say is this (from a man standpoint)....when presented with a situation....think with your BRAINS and not your BALLS first, AND THEN speak. You ever hear the phrase..."don't cut off your nose to spite your face?" Most of us have, but take ego + type A + pride + testosterone - a few brain cells and that phrase gets erased from memory and something real stupid happens. BOTTOM LINE: No matter where you go in this business, you must learn, understand, master, and play the GAME!

10. SEEK out opportunities and when they do present themselves, JUMP on them with both feet and do not look back.

11. Never forget where you came from OR those that saw something in you and gave you that big "CHANCE". Trust me; many big chances WILL come along. You are going to need and get help from many along the way. Just DON'T forget it and repay them by doing a good job and helping others along the way when you get the chance. 12. Find out what type of work you want to do and who you think you want to work for. THEN find out everything that you can about the company. THEN find out who are the people that make the decisions. THEN go and meet them and learn a little about their operation. THEN make your decision on whether it is the right place for you and that you can accept what they are offering. THEN show them your eagerness to work for them and try and convince them that you are the best guy for the job. THEN once you get that job, LIVE by concepts 1 thru 11.

Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. Teach a helicopter pilot to fish-and he will sit on a boat and drink beer all day....
clipperdudeUser is Offline

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02/20/2012 4:29 PM  
"...I know many companies looking to hire fuel truck drivers..."

Non-flying jobs are just as difficult to find as the ones flying. Therefore, on behalf of all of us struggling low-times, I'll go ahead and ask;

Who is looking to hire fuel truck drivers?
kodozUser is Offline
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02/21/2012 1:01 AM  
Posted By jlewis on 02/20/2012 2:31 PM
So kodoz, fmtndt what do you suggest for the low-time guys?


I networked my way into a job where I fly, on average, 10 hrs per month (and, btw, I am grateful for this job). I drive more to it in a week than I fly in a month, and for the first 6 months flight time was costing me almost market rate. Now I'm at the break-even point, but am away from my family and home 4-5 days per week. My recruiting and time-building efforts are further hindered by my inability to spout the sales pitch or to pander to customers' wants rather than students' needs. I compare this approach to the school I attended and it leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth. As is usually the case, wisdom begins at the end.

Sorry to say, but I can't give you any great advice. Throw money at this, network, visit schools, expand your education (throw more money at this), participate in the WINGS program, and do lots of good things in the hope that what goes around really does come around. Leverage any skill, knowledge, connection, or asset you have: one of my friends worked 2 years driving a truck for a spray operation before getting his break. Remember that the plastic in your wallet is worthless: it's what you gained in knowledge and connections in the process of getting those certificates, and the rest of the skills that you bring beyond your certificates, that hopefully will catch an employer's interest.

I'd also add my take on the analogy to colleges when it comes to job placement services. Most colleges and universities will have an office dedicated to finding you a job through networking, internships, and job fairs. Oftentimes, you are surrounded by willing mentors who are secure enough (and believe it is their duty) to help jump start your career through education, guidance, and by making introductions. Many 4-year degrees are often followed by post-graduate training where you will be mentored or at least work under the guidance of a veteran of the field. Colleges don't guarantee these services, what you get from them is what you make of it, at best it makes things less difficult, and you can still get screwed. Ultimately, this approach to training has elevated the career tracks served by colleges and universities.
rotormandanUser is Offline
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02/21/2012 6:19 PM  
Thing is with such a big pool of low timers there is no reason to have a job fair for low hour pilots. They're easy to find. On the other hand, experienced pilots are hard to find when your trying to fill a specific slot.
ghettobird1User is Offline
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02/22/2012 6:50 PM  
I went to HAI last week and feel I walked away with a much better perspective of the current job market. For a industry that doesn't pay well, it sure was expensive! The classes were outrageously overpriced and admission alone was enough to break the bank of any struggling pilot. The job fair was packed from open to close and had a meat market feel. I did learn that the pilot job market is better than I had thought for those pilots with 2000+ hours and some turbine time. If you don't have the hours, you are waisting your time. Iif you do, applying online would probably be just as effective. Overall it was a good experience to do once.
AnotherguyUser is Offline
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02/22/2012 8:22 PM  
I'm not trying to sound like a broken record, but networking is a must. Two things that come to mind when I think of networking (1) make sure you are meeting the right people (2) when you meet the right people, let them get to know you as a person, not just another job candidate. This probably will not happen overnight or with just one meeting. In my experience, who you know (or who knows you and your skill set and work ethic) can be the deciding factor in finding and getting a job. I have 7 different helicopter pilot friends who were hired within the last 3 years all because of who they knew. The most recent one was offered a job this week. The highest time guy of the 7 had about 3,500hrs and the lowest had right at 200hrs, the other 5 had 800 to 1000 hrs. And most of them had the posted hiring minimums waived (TT, Turbine Time, etc), all because they knew the right person. Right or wrong, the "who you know" game happens in aviation just as it does it other job fields.
chrisrupp2002User is Offline
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02/24/2012 7:06 PM  
fmtndtUser is Offline I do not know you but I wish that I did. Sir that was some great advice from about No. 8 thru 11 everything you had written is so true. You write with true conviction and passion. Someday sir I hope we have the opportunity to cross paths or airspace. I have to agree on never passing on an opportunity because that my friend is opportunity knocking. Thanks again for that generous and honest post.
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